Adler, Trauma, and the Driver's Seat

Samantha Bauer(00:01.13)
Welcome back to Sisters in Law of Attraction. I'm Sam.

Christine Goforth(00:04.715)
And I'm Christine.

Samantha Bauer(00:06.388)
And it's so great to be back with you, Christine. How are you? I'm good. You know, it's it's always a good day when we can we can pop on here and and talk about fun things.

Christine Goforth(00:10.32)
I'm so good. How are you?

Christine Goforth(00:16.342)
I know. Our favorite things.

Samantha Bauer(00:19.882)
Right, our favorite things. And speaking of our favorite things, we have some some fun listeners that you know give us some feedback. And last time we were talking about the importance of lifting others and that you know lifts you and helps with with keeping you in the lane of joy and gratitude. And this one listener shared a story of about a a dad, he had three young kids and and he taught them that that their kind thoughts

Christine Goforth(00:27.758)
Yes.

Christine Goforth(00:31.46)
Mm-hmm.

Samantha Bauer(00:49.776)
don't belong to them. They need to return or give them to the cause. And so they had a motto, the dad had a motto with the kids, and he says, if you think something nice, you say it.

Christine Goforth(00:52.688)
Mm.

Christine Goforth(01:02.616)
Yep. I love that. I love that so much.

Samantha Bauer(01:05.26)
Yeah, and and right. And so how many times really have we been out and about and seen something, you know, a cute top or or someone's cute hair or whatever, like, my gosh, I totally love her hair. Like, say it, right?

Christine Goforth(01:20.708)
Yep. Yep. That's what I tell my kids all the time. When they were younger, they used to be so embarrassed. Jules would be like, my gosh, I love her hair. It would be like mermaid colored. I'm like, Well tell her. It would make her feel so good. but I'm embarrassed. I'm like, but now as they're older, they both will without hesitation, like, I love your I love your hair. I love the color of your whatever it is. Like, I love your tattoos. I love whatever it is. It's

Samantha Bauer(01:32.128)
Yeah. Right.

Samantha Bauer(01:47.596)
Yes. Whatever it is, yeah.

Christine Goforth(01:51.85)
Spreading that joy is you just never know when you're making someone's day. When that kind thing is just the thing that, you know, brightens their day.

Samantha Bauer(01:57.983)
Absolutely. And this whole what

Samantha Bauer(02:03.958)
Right. Well and and it and like this dad said, like those those good thoughts don't belong to you. Right. It's I love that that whole concept that, you know, if if that thought came into your head, like it's your responsibility to to share it. Right. Right.

Christine Goforth(02:10.69)
I love that.

Christine Goforth(02:19.77)
To share it with the person. Absolutely. I love that. And I think it's it's funny because we say, you know, other people's opinion of me is none of my business when it's something negative. But if it's a kind thought, it is absolutely their business.

Samantha Bauer(02:36.234)
Exactly. Yeah, no, no, for sure. Well, and and before we jump in, it's actually this is a little bit of a segue into today's conversation, which is it's gonna st it's gonna stretch us a little bit because we're gonna be talking about some philosophies and you know different ways of looking at past, you know, challenges or traumas and and and how we can, you know, think of them in different terms. But you know, of course, everyone's talking about summer house reunion and and and of course this podcast is not that kind of podcast.

Christine Goforth(03:02.51)
Yes.

Samantha Bauer(03:06.288)
But I thought I was watching it. I had to catch up because we were traveling. And so I watched the last several episodes before the reunion. So I mean, I was, yeah. So I literally paused it and wrote down when Sierra was telling Amanda. And I do apologize to some of our listeners. If you're not a summer house, you know, viewer, you know, just bear with us because you're you'll understand, you know, kind of where I'm going with this. But Sierra says to Amanda,

Christine Goforth(03:14.713)
it's so good.

Christine Goforth(03:31.29)
We'll bring it home.

Samantha Bauer(03:33.676)
You are in charge of your life. You have to stop letting life happen to you. And this is like, and in this scene, Sierra and Mia actually getting pissed at Amanda. Like she was just sort of sitting there, kind of doing the whole victim thing. And yeah.

Christine Goforth(03:44.559)
Yeah.

Christine Goforth(03:48.282)
So complacent and just ro she was so pouty and rolling her eyes.

Samantha Bauer(03:55.617)
Yeah, yeah. And and so I was like, my God, yes, Sierra. Yeah, she you know, because I mean obviously, you know, she's a badass and and she was just, you know, but in that moment she was just like, I am I'm kinda sick of just like being like supportive of you because you're just kind of sitting there doing nothing.

Christine Goforth(04:12.045)
Right. Help me help you. And she never has. Not one time ever. Yep. Nope.

Samantha Bauer(04:15.158)
Right, like get in the driver's seat. Get in the driver's seat. And of course she did get in the driver's seat and it was a totally different journey. Totally yeah. Yeah, you you could argue it's definitely the wrong car, right?

Christine Goforth(04:22.603)
It was the wrong car.

Christine Goforth(04:27.897)
Babe got in the wrong car. She took the wrong ride, let's just say that.

Samantha Bauer(04:36.118)
Right, right. So so that was kind of a fun way to kind of segue into, you know, kind of this this heavier concept that we're gonna talk about today. You know, Christine, I was sharing that I'm reading a book that my daughter gave me for my birthday, and it's called The Courage to Be Disliked. And it's a Japanese phenomenon that shows you how to change your life and achieve real happiness. They've also written a book, and so the authors are Kashimi and Koga. and it's very fascinating.

Samantha Bauer(04:36.118)
the way they've structured the book because it is a conversation between a young man and a philosopher. And so I have not gotten through the entire book, but I'm, you know, in the first, they have like five discussions, and so I'm in the first discussion, and this first discussion or conversation is literally called deny trauma. And for purposes of setting up this conversation, I think it's important for me to kind of just kind of set it up because this young man was sharing with the philosopher that he has this friend.

Christine Goforth(05:18.098)
okay.

Samantha Bauer(05:33.889)
that has social anxiety and he's a recluse and he he just can't you know get himself out out of his room and because he has all this anxiety and and so anyhow so the so the the youth was with the this young man was saying, you know, I don't know the the cause of his trauma. You know, it could be that he was bullied or, you know, his his parents, you know, you know, were terrible to him and didn't love him. And so the philosoph philosopher says,

Samantha Bauer(05:33.889)
So you are saying that there were incidents in your friend's past that became the cause of trauma or something similar as a result, he can't go out anymore. So he's asking questions for clarification. And the young man says, Of course, before an effect, there's a cause. There's nothing mysterious about that. So, anyhow, the philosopher goes in and you know and says, Well, if you think that, then everyone who experienced the similar trauma that this your friend did, they would have the same effect.

Christine Goforth(06:15.019)
Sure.

Samantha Bauer(06:33.772)
Determinism, right? And so he said, the philosopher said, so if the here and now of everyone in the world is due to their past incidents, according to you, wouldn't things turn out very strangely. Don't you see? Everyone has grown up abused by his his or her parents would have to suffer the same effects as your friend and become a recluse. So anyhow, so the so the young man's getting kind of pissed at him. It's like, you're being kind of harsh. You know, you're denying the fact that this that that this trauma was very real, you know, for him.

Christine Goforth(06:35.15)
Mm-hmm.

Christine Goforth(06:56.501)
Right. Right.

Samantha Bauer(07:03.648)
And so the philosopher introduces Adler. Alfred Adler is a philosopher. And so there's an Adlerian psychology that that it it is you are not, and I you and I have already said this in a totally different way. You if you're focused on the cause, then okay, that's just

Samantha Bauer(07:03.648)
There's no fix, right? I don't have any responsibility on how I'm going to react to it. So you've like you've said in the past, Christine, it's like, okay, you can visit it, but you can't live there. Yeah. And so the philosopher was making the point that let's say you have a cold and you go to the doctor and you you're just you're looking for, you know, some relief, some medicine, and the doctor says, Well, you got a cold because you went out in the rain and you didn't have, you know, a coat on.

Christine Goforth(07:37.655)
Right.

Christine Goforth(07:37.655)
But we don't live there. Right. Right.

Samantha Bauer(08:01.014)
And he says, How would you feel with that? He goes, Well, I wouldn't be happy at all with that. He goes, Yeah, because it's just focused on the cause. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so

Christine Goforth(08:04.972)
Right. What happened? Right. Okay. Interesting. Interesting. Okay.

Samantha Bauer(08:16.606)
So so the philosopher saying, you know, based on Adlerian psychology is that we do not suffer from the shock of the experience, the so-called trauma, but instead we suffer by the meaning we assign to it because it serves a purpose. And this reminded me of reading You Are a Badass by Jen Shinchero when she said, We do things because it serves us. Right? And so

Christine Goforth(08:32.45)
Okay.

Christine Goforth(08:41.672)
Right. Yeah.

Samantha Bauer(08:43.914)
It's the, you know, he the the the person who has always wanted to write a book, but finds 50 million reasons on why they can't write that book, right? And so there's there's ways that we can limit ourselves. And so the whole point of of this book is is just you know looking at different psychologies, but it it it's really quite brilliant the way, you know, the progression of of the conversation goes. And I and I, you know.

Christine Goforth(08:50.008)
Mm-hmm.

Christine Goforth(08:54.158)
Mm-hmm.

Samantha Bauer(09:13.474)
I think when I was trying to articulate about the book, you were like, whoa, wait a minute. You know, trauma's real. We can't deny trauma.

Christine Goforth(09:19.246)
I was like, wait a minute, I don't know. I might have I haven't read the book, but I might push back a little bit here.

Samantha Bauer(09:27.584)
Right, right. Like the young man does. He says, you know, you're this is brutal. This is a br brutal way.

Christine Goforth(09:30.765)
Right. But I can when you explain it, that makes sense to me. And I d and again, I haven't read the book, so maybe he is actually saying trauma does not exist, period. Dot, end of story. But so far what I'm hearing is that something can happen to you that is traumatic, but

Samantha Bauer(09:58.201)
Yeah.

Christine Goforth(10:01.038)
To carry that trauma is your own choice. So, in other words, like I say, we are not responsible for the things that happen to us that we have zero hand in, but we are 100% responsible for how we carry through life after said event happens. And this is such an interesting thing to discuss because

Samantha Bauer(10:22.402)
Right.

Samantha Bauer(10:22.402)
Yeah, yeah.

Samantha Bauer(10:22.402)
Right.

Christine Goforth(10:29.77)
It is so true that we all have these narrations in our head of stories that we tell ourselves, right? And so often they're not true and they are self-limiting beliefs. And and that's I think that's essentially what he's saying so far is that you are you're blocking yourself, creating these stories about so-called drama. and

Samantha Bauer(10:38.051)
Right.

Samantha Bauer(10:56.91)
Right.

Christine Goforth(10:58.668)
blaming your either lack of success in relationships or work or whatever it is, you're blaming it on that because that's an easy crutch. I ca I didn't I wasn't able to do that because of XYZ.

Samantha Bauer(11:13.954)
Right, right, exactly. And I think this this just quickly getting back to the exchange,

Samantha Bauer(11:13.954)
so the philosopher says, so Adlerian psychology, we do not think about past causes, but rather about present goals. So the young man says, present goals. And the philosopher says, Your friend is insecure, so he can't go out. Think about it the other way around. He doesn't want to go out, so he's creating a state of anxiety. And the young man goes, huh? Yeah, because the young man is not buying this at all. So the philosopher says, think about it this way. Your friend had the goal of not going out.

Christine Goforth(11:41.154)
Mm.

Christine Goforth(11:46.989)
Right.

Samantha Bauer(11:50.889)
Beforehand, and he's been manufacturing a state of anxiety and fear as a means to achieve that goal. In Adlerian psychology, and this is going to get a little too too dense. This is called teleology. And teleology is the study of the purpose of a given phenomenon rather than its cause. It's interesting that.

Christine Goforth(11:57.379)
Yeah.

Christine Goforth(12:05.174)
Okay, I looked into that. Yeah.

Samantha Bauer(12:16.268)
you know, the purpose behind our behavior. We're there's always a purpose, right? There's always a goal. And that's the focus of Adlerian psychology is that we are goal oriented. So if we are

Christine Goforth(12:21.068)
Mm-hmm.

Christine Goforth(12:27.768)
People do the things that they want to do. People do the things that they get some kind of a benefit.

Samantha Bauer(12:36.276)
Exactly. Whether it's negative or I mean a benefit's not always positive, it just it benefits it benefits them. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And yeah. So anyhow, it's it's you know, it's a little it's a little dense, but I'm really, I'm really enjoying this. And and like I said, I haven't gotten totally, you know, totally into the book, but I started reading it, I'm like, my gosh, and I just like sent it to you. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna say something very controversial here.

Christine Goforth(12:38.474)
Right. Total in some form. Right.

Christine Goforth(13:00.184)
That's so

Samantha Bauer(13:04.64)
And challenge this whole, you know, the existence of trauma or whatever. But it it does become a self fulfilling prophecy. So, I mean, making it a little light h little more light h hearted with Summerhouse, right? Amanda, right? She played victim, yes. Th her relationship with her husband, Kyle, was not great and et cetera, et cetera, and whatever. But

Christine Goforth(13:24.062)
No, but I think she got so comfortable being the victim so early on that she was happy to she was happy to play that victim.

Samantha Bauer(13:32.823)
Right. And so so again, what was her goal? Her goal, like at that her playing victim and being victimized in this relationship served a purpose. And so again, that they call it the teleology. It's the focus of the purpose. There's a purpose fine. Instead of I think it's etiology. I'm see, I'm not getting really kind of geeky here, but that is

Christine Goforth(13:42.092)
Right.

Christine Goforth(13:54.631)
No, I have notes on that in the Freudian versus yep.

Samantha Bauer(14:00.214)
Right. And so etiology is about just focusing on the cause. You know, just and so anyhow, I think when this is just a a totally, you know, different way and perhaps a little more complex way of trying to understand, you know, our behavior. And you know, we when we talk all the time about, you know, life is 10% of what happens to you and 90% of how you react to it. It's

Christine Goforth(14:04.474)
huh.

Samantha Bauer(14:28.482)
True.

Christine Goforth(14:29.781)
Right. Well, and that's essentially what this book is saying. And I think that there I think we've talked about concepts of this before and and perhaps saying trauma doesn't exist is the more controversial way of spinning it or saying it. but I don't

Christine Goforth(14:29.781)
I don't know that it takes a rocket scientist to know that looking backwards and ruminating on why things happen is not beneficial to us. To understand why we do things, sure, that's important. But then to flip that and say, okay, how am I gonna move through the world that's going to help me grow rather than keep me stagnant, right?

Samantha Bauer(15:21.922)
Right. Yeah, and it and and it just occurs to me too that people just need to recognize the again, the whole purpose of Sisters in Law of Attraction is to just understand the power that you have, good or bad, right?

Christine Goforth(15:39.489)
Yep. Yeah, absolutely.

Samantha Bauer(15:41.814)
And and so that life isn't really just I mean, you could sit back and let quote unquote life happen to you, but let's be honest, life is happening exactly how you want it to. Because you're making decisions. Yeah.

Christine Goforth(15:53.388)
Right. On some level, absolutely. On some level, you're making those decisions to do or not do. yeah, I just I think back to that summer house episode and

Samantha Bauer(16:07.68)
Yeah. There's I mean, there's a lot to, you know, certainly unpack and I mean

Christine Goforth(16:13.389)
Well, and it's like we all know somebody like Anna Amanda who is comfortable being the victim and gets I mean, look at she had the best of friends on her side for so many years. So yeah, she was gaining a lot from playing the victim. I think she I think on on some level she loved having a shitty husband because she could use that.

Samantha Bauer(16:21.634)
Right. Yep.

Samantha Bauer(16:33.88)
Sure.

Samantha Bauer(16:42.21)
Right.

Christine Goforth(16:43.415)
For so as an excuse for so many things. So

Samantha Bauer(16:46.732)
Right.

Samantha Bauer(16:46.732)
Right. Yeah. It and it right, it just becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy because if you focus on in in the example in in the book, The Courage to be disliked, the young man saying his friend, you know, he had this trauma, this childhood trauma, so he can't he can't get out of his his room. But he just used that trauma as a crutch or an excuse. And then and then the the philosopher goes as far to say, like I'm not I'm not saying his anxiety is not real. I'm not saying his

Christine Goforth(16:52.556)
Right.

Christine Goforth(17:08.598)
Right.

Samantha Bauer(17:17.676)
He probably has a stomach cramp or the stomach ache over the anxiety. But he created that, is what the philosopher is saying. And that is, I think, where the controversial, you know, get like, how dare you blame the victim? I mean, this poor kid, you know, he had all this trauma. And so, but somebody else, and that's why the philosopher says he he rejects determinism because we all have bad shit that happens to us.

Christine Goforth(17:21.813)
Sure.

Christine Goforth(17:25.494)
Right.

Christine Goforth(17:47.489)
We all react differently though. So

Samantha Bauer(17:49.263)
We all react differently, right? And so that's where what meaning, and again, not minimizing whatever whatever bad event or trauma that you have been through, it's the meaning that you apply to it that drives your behavior in reaction to it.

Christine Goforth(18:03.255)
Sure.

Christine Goforth(18:06.667)
Right. Gosh, this is so interesting.

Samantha Bauer(18:10.136)
And

Christine Goforth(18:12.653)
Because it's it's such a different way of

Christine Goforth(18:12.653)
Of thinking. And when you kind of flip it and say, you know, why he's creating the anxiety of not wanting to go out. It's like, okay, well, when does that when does it switch from this was happening to me? And then it's like this weird gray area where all of a sudden it be you internalize it and become it. So it's like you have to.

Samantha Bauer(18:30.851)
Right.

Samantha Bauer(18:45.644)
Right, right. Well that's just the power of the mind, right? That like you said, that whole story, that narrative, that little man in your head and the thing that's on the loop. Right. We've talked about it too, right? When you when you had all the you know the the medical scares and all that, you made yourself more sick to because you were on the loop. Something terrible, something terrible. Yeah, yeah.

Christine Goforth(18:48.854)
Yeah.

Christine Goforth(18:54.445)
Mm.

Christine Goforth(18:54.445)
Yeah. yeah.

Christine Goforth(19:02.178)
yeah.

Christine Goforth(19:06.901)
Yep, absolutely. Yep, absolutely. I and the power of the mind and creating stress and then what stress does to the body. And that all starts from the stories we tell ourselves in our head, the fears that we ruminate on, all of it.

Samantha Bauer(19:18.764)
Yes.

Samantha Bauer(19:23.67)
Absolutely. And I yeah.

Samantha Bauer(19:23.67)
Right, right. And I and I think that that's what's is so

Samantha Bauer(19:23.67)
You know, I'm so grateful to have this opportunity to to have these conversations with you, Christine, and share with our listeners because the more we can become aware of those thoughts, again, we've talked about just becoming aware and then changing the the you know the neuroplasticity of our brains. Like we literally can can rewire our brains. We've talked about this before. And and I think that that's the power of of of our conversations and in building this community.

Samantha Bauer(19:23.67)
that you know you are more powerful than you than than you think. Does it take discipline? Absolutely. I mean let's go back almost a year ago Christine is when I had my sort of intervention with you. It was not planned.

Christine Goforth(20:13.866)
Yeah. my god, it really was No wait, was it two years ago or one year ago?

Samantha Bauer(20:21.81)
Christine, it was only last June. Last June, because yeah, and then the the podcast idea was born in July. Yes. Does that sound isn't that crazy?

Christine Goforth(20:28.419)
what?

Christine Goforth(20:34.412)
that's crazy. my gosh, that's so crazy. Okay. Wow. Yeah.

Samantha Bauer(20:36.524)
Yeah.

Samantha Bauer(20:36.524)
Yeah. Right. I know isn't yeah. I mean, yeah, so so and I think you joked too when when we were Right? We're just starting out. but you know, when we were, you know, sharing back and forth on the summer house, you know, whatever, whatever, and and so you're like, Okay, yeah, that moment between Sierra and Amanda where she said, you know, basically put your big girl pants on, you're like, yeah, that was pretty much our conversation.

Christine Goforth(20:48.492)
I'm just a baby on this journey.

Christine Goforth(21:08.65)
Yeah yeah, you said Sierra to Amanda, you know, y you did this to yourself stopping a victim. I was like, yeah, okay. Minus that you did this to yourself. You definitely didn't say that, but

Samantha Bauer(21:18.124)
Well, yeah, I I

Samantha Bauer(21:18.124)
I did not say it because clearly you did not create that horrible situation. But yeah, no, in that moment you're like, yeah, I don't, yeah, I don't I don't wanna be this anymore. I don't I don't wanna be sad. I don't I don't wanna I don't wanna be this anymore. I'm not gonna do it anymore. So so I think this is a great, great sort of segue set up to our next because you know, our time is up. I swear it goes to way, way too fast.

Christine Goforth(21:32.842)
Yeah, it's not working for me.

Christine Goforth(21:32.842)
No.

Christine Goforth(21:45.612)
Ay.

Samantha Bauer(21:47.217)
so next time we're gonna talk about this whole concept of self sabotage. And I think it really, really connects to the conversation that we we just we just had is that we continue to do things because it serves us. And and so this whole idea of how we can self sabotage to to make sure that we'll never truly, you know, find happiness and success. Yeah. So

Christine Goforth(21:51.38)
Yes.

Christine Goforth(22:09.738)
Right? I'm excited to delve into that.

Samantha Bauer(22:12.29)
We're we're gonna get into it next time, but we're so happy that you joined us this time. This is Sisters in Law of Attraction. I'm Sam. And we'll see you next time. Bye.

Christine Goforth(22:19.005)
And I'm Christine.

Christine Goforth(22:19.005)
Bye.