All Problems Are Relationship Problems

Samantha Bauer(00:01.652)
Welcome back everyone to Sisters in Law of Attraction. I'm Sam. And we're so happy you're back with us. Christine, it's always such a great day to see you on here and get to talk about our fun, fun things. A couple episodes ago, we talked about a book that I'm reading that my daughter gave me for my birthday, and we had such a lively discussion.

Christine Goforth(00:05.311)
And I'm Christine.

Christine Goforth(00:12.963)
So fun.

Christine Goforth(00:25.836)
Yes, we did.

Samantha Bauer(00:28.62)
So the book is called The Courage to Be Disliked. It's the Japanese phenomenon that shows you how to change your life and achieve real happiness by Kishimi and Koga. And essentially it's a conversation between a young man and a philosopher. And so the authors are absolutely brilliant in how they present the story and how to get these ideas across. And so they really jump into, and we talked about it last time, Adler psychology. So Adler was a psychologist, and we kind of got into it because, well, let me just say the book is organized in five conversations, and the first conversation, you and I talked about, Christine, and that is deny trauma.

Christine Goforth(01:01.677)
Yes.

Samantha Bauer(01:14.758)
And so at first you were resistant, you're like, I don't know about this, Sam, and then of course you dug into it and you're like, okay, so this makes a lot of sense. So essentially, Adler says, or rather, the philosopher in the book doesn't deny that bad things happen, but it's the meaning that we attribute to the trauma, and we focus so much on the cause, which is kind of the Freudian piece.

Christine Goforth(01:19.894)
Yep. It doesn't exist.

Christine Goforth(01:28.984)
Mm-hmm.

Christine Goforth(01:41.816)
Right.

Christine Goforth(01:48.574)
Right. That then becomes the narrative that runs our life, basically.

Samantha Bauer(01:56.509)
Exactly. And so the whole point of this first conversation was to convince the young man, they used the example of his friend who couldn't leave his room because he didn't want to go out into society, because he'd experienced some sort of trauma, whether he wasn't loved or he was bullied or whatever the issue was. And so the philosopher makes the point that you focusing on the cause doesn't, there's no fix to it because you're so fixated on the cause. And it's an excuse, right? And it becomes sort of a crutch.

Christine Goforth(02:30.219)
Right. Right.

Samantha Bauer(02:39.46)
So in this episode we will examine their second conversation in which the philosopher explains that all problems are interpersonal relationship problems. And here again the young man's like, what are you talking about? Like all of your problems come down to interpersonal relationship problems. And so the young man is challenging, right?

Christine Goforth(02:50.357)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Christine Goforth(02:55.009)
Right.

Christine Goforth(03:02.229)
Right, absolutely.

Samantha Bauer(03:04.554)
And he resists this notion and the philosopher kind of takes us through it and he makes the point that you can't feel lonely without the existence of others, that which you're lonely for. And he says, whatever the worry that may arise, the shadows of other people are always present. So really and truly just think about any problem in your life currently, it is connected to some sort of a relationship.

Christine Goforth(03:15.788)
Right.

Christine Goforth(03:24.501)
Mm.

Christine Goforth(03:28.866)
Right.

Christine Goforth(03:34.446)
Absolutely, whether it's work or friends or marriage, anything like that. And I think it's so interesting that it's like, if you were alone in the universe, right, how many problems would absolutely disappear? Jealousy, shame, comparison, judgment, fear of judgment, fear of failure, all of that.

Samantha Bauer(03:52.962)
Right. Yeah.

Samantha Bauer(04:02.016)
Exactly. And the philosopher even quotes Adler, who maintains, and you just said it, to get rid of one's problems, all one can do is live in the universe all alone, which of course we can't do. And nor would we want to, right?

Christine Goforth(04:03.169)
Just disappears.

Christine Goforth(04:20.843)
Right. No, absolutely not. I can only imagine the problems that would arise being alone.

Samantha Bauer(04:31.244)
Right? Yeah. No, for sure. And so anyhow, that sets the foundation for the conversation in this next section of the book, this next conversation between the young man and the philosopher. And he goes on to talk about feelings of inferiority.

Christine Goforth(04:55.349)
Mm, mm.

Samantha Bauer(04:59.328)
He says that the feelings of inferiority and superiority are not diseases, they are stimulants to a happy and healthy life. And this is directly from Adler.

Christine Goforth(05:11.509)
Interesting. Okay.

Samantha Bauer(05:13.11)
Right. And so feelings of inferiority actually help you press for continuous improvement. So the way it's explained is we're all kind of born helpless, right? And so we're all beginners at everything that we do, from walking to talking to whatever.

Christine Goforth(05:29.259)
Right. We're all beginners. Mm.

Samantha Bauer(05:38.634)
And it is that pursuit, that feeling of inferiority, is a good thing because it pushes you to strive and grow.

Christine Goforth(05:47.629)
To do better, to figure it out, to persevere, right?

Samantha Bauer(05:51.565)
Right, right. So then he goes on to talk about the difference between feelings of inferiority and an inferiority complex.

Christine Goforth(06:06.271)
Mm, which is where the voice in your head comes in, right? That little narrator.

Samantha Bauer(06:11.678)
Exactly, exactly. It creates a story in your head that you're just not good at this and you're never gonna be good at it. And it's a mindset and a series of emotions that holds you static and you're not able to grow. So it's a little bit of a nuanced distinction there, but an important one in talking about

Christine Goforth(06:31.069)
Mm. Right.

Samantha Bauer(06:41.592)
inferiority, because again we have to feel the need for growth and to strive for more in order to have that motivation. So feelings of inferiority are actually a good thing, right?

Christine Goforth(06:52.716)
Right.

Christine Goforth(07:00.833)
Well, and I think it's that special word that starts with a Y, right? It's the yet. I can't do it yet. I can't do this thing that I've been striving to do yet. I'm not good at XYZ yet. Rather than I'm not good at it and I will never be good at it, and therefore I won't try, right?

Samantha Bauer(07:23.106)
Right, right, exactly. And again it just becomes that sort of excuse that you hide behind. And so Adler continues to explain that people have the universal desire to escape from that helpless state that we are all born with. And this is the pursuit of superiority.

Christine Goforth(07:47.021)
Hm.

Samantha Bauer(07:47.415)
Right. And again it gets a little dense as the philosopher is trying to explain to the young man that the superiority complex is sort of that braggart, right? That person who is falsely putting themselves out there and saying, I'm better than this person and look at me, I did this and I did that. And so that comes from a place of lack.

Christine Goforth(08:03.028)
Mm.

Christine Goforth(08:13.965)
Yeah.

Christine Goforth(08:17.797)
Mm-hmm.

Samantha Bauer(08:18.279)
Because you feel like you have to puff your chest and say, I have access to all of these accomplishments or access to power.

Christine Goforth(08:25.314)
Yep. Peacock those feathers. Mm-hmm.

Christine Goforth(08:34.176)
So is it fair to say that in these teachings, having a feeling of superiority is not necessarily a bad thing, but it becomes bad when it becomes a superiority complex and you become the cocky braggart that nobody wants to associate with. Accurate, right? And then kind of the reverse for an inferiority complex.

Samantha Bauer(08:56.044)
Right. And it's also, yeah.

Christine Goforth(09:03.424)
Again, feeling inferior can help push you to strive to do better, to grow. But once you pass a certain threshold, then it becomes something that is taking away and stopping you from trying. Okay. That makes sense.

Samantha Bauer(09:19.658)
Exactly. I think that's a good explanation. And also he says that intense feelings of inferiority can turn into a feeling of superiority, right? So you're masking your low self-esteem and you're masking it by saying, well, look, I did all of this over here and look at me. So again, the feeling

Christine Goforth(09:35.727)
Mm. Okay.

Christine Goforth(09:50.975)
Interesting. Okay.

Samantha Bauer(09:52.727)
of superiority is fabricated, right? It's a false mask based on a borrowed sense of power, or you're borrowing other people's value set.

Christine Goforth(09:56.747)
Okay. Yep.

Christine Goforth(10:07.198)
Okay. Kind of like being in proximity to power makes you feel like you have the power or have access to whatever it is.

Samantha Bauer(10:13.89)
Yeah.

Samantha Bauer(10:18.996)
Exactly. So from there, that's kind of the basis for this concept that life is not a competition. And I gotta tell you, I was so reflective with this piece of the book.

Christine Goforth(10:30.234)
I love that.

Samantha Bauer(10:37.302)
That the pursuit of superiority is the mindset of taking a step forward. And again, pursuit of superiority is different than superiority complex, right, which is false and fabricated. But when you're pursuing superiority, it's a mindset of taking a step forward. Imagine everyone is moving forward, but at a different pace. It's not about being better than others, but rather the forward motion is that you're striving and growing for yourself, not competing against others.

Christine Goforth(10:48.118)
Right. Right.

Christine Goforth(10:57.89)
Mm-hmm.

Christine Goforth(11:07.97)
Yeah.

Christine Goforth(11:12.814)
I love this so much because I am such a huge proponent of, I know the word journey is cringy, but you're on your own path. You are living your own life. What anybody else is doing doesn't matter. If they are quote unquote ahead of you, what does that mean? Right? Like everybody has a different set of desires and goals.

Samantha Bauer(11:31.842)
Right.

Christine Goforth(11:41.391)
And dreams and hopes and all of that. So why on earth would you compare what you want and the road that you're taking to something that is completely different? And I drill that into my daughters all the time. All the time.

Samantha Bauer(11:55.801)
Right. Yeah. Yep.

Samantha Bauer(12:02.786)
Right. And it's such a great lesson. And so, true confessions, I was the exact opposite. Right. I was raised in a very competitive sports environment and you're constantly in competition with other people. Win, win, win. It's about the win. And when I was reading the book and reflecting on it and preparing for our episode today, I literally texted my daughter and I said, okay, I think I kinda got this part of parenting wrong.

Christine Goforth(12:13.922)
Mm, yeah.

Christine Goforth(12:19.406)
Yeah.

Samantha Bauer(12:37.222)
Because I wanted to make sure both of my kids, Maddie and Max, had the tools that they needed to compete in the world.

Christine Goforth(12:37.622)
Mm.

Christine Goforth(12:45.635)
Mm-hmm.

Christine Goforth(12:49.164)
Sure.

Samantha Bauer(12:49.428)
Right. And so after reading this, I'm realizing that maybe that wasn't so right. And then in reflecting, they had issues with friends or building relationships and trusting relationships, because they felt that people were after them. Right.

Christine Goforth(13:13.196)
It was competition. I gotta get to it before you do, right? But how beautiful of a moment for you and huge growth to recognize that that is something that you could have done differently and had a different outcome, and to humble yourself and to say, hey, I might have not gotten this part right. Like, there are not a lot of people who

Samantha Bauer(13:18.882)
Right. Right. Right.

Samantha Bauer(13:37.944)
Yeah. Yeah.

Christine Goforth(13:41.6)
are willing to do that, especially with their kids.

Samantha Bauer(13:44.587)
Yeah, exactly. And I think that's one of the biggest things that I appreciate with my relationship with my kids. We've talked about that transition from being the know-it-all parent to really growing your relationship with your young adult children, that you didn't have all the answers. And so you fake it till you make it. And you can laugh at it and just say, I thought in the moment this was the right thing. And okay, so they're two very successful, put together young

Christine Goforth(13:57.068)
Yeah.

Christine Goforth(14:06.04)
No. Right.

Samantha Bauer(14:19.168)
people, so it's not like I totally screwed up, but in reflection, I could have done this part a little bit differently. And so the philosopher makes the point in the book, when you focus on competing with others, it's about winning and losing, and you begin to see everyone as your enemy.

Christine Goforth(14:21.486)
Absolutely not. They're fantastic.

Christine Goforth(14:41.972)
Mm. Yeah. Or an opponent at the very least, right?

Samantha Bauer(14:48.076)
Right. And so the important piece to this is, this is all about making sure that you can access your happiness, right? Stop comparing yourself. We say it all the time. Don't compare yourself. But if you really break it down, you can see that if you don't view others as your comrades

Christine Goforth(15:09.518)
Right.

Samantha Bauer(15:10.274)
but rather your enemy, then look how you approach those relationships. And again, all of your problems start and end with interpersonal relationships. So when you start looking at others as the comrades, the world will start to look more positive.

Christine Goforth(15:14.498)
Yeah. Mm.

Christine Goforth(15:28.64)
Mm-hmm.

Samantha Bauer(15:29.444)
And your interpersonal relationship problems will decrease. And you talked about this last time, you brought up the life lie, and so this is the next part of this section of the book. He talks about, in Adlerian psychology, that there are clear objectives. And you kind of already hit on that, Christine. For human behavior, there are two objectives.

Christine Goforth(15:39.767)
Yeah.

Christine Goforth(15:51.17)
Yes. Yeah.

Samantha Bauer(15:59.391)
To be self reliant.

Christine Goforth(16:00.813)
Mm-hmm.

Samantha Bauer(16:01.784)
And to live in harmony with society. So behaviorally, those are the two objectives, right? And then the two objectives for psychology that support those behaviors are the understanding that I have the ability to be self reliant, and that people are my comrades. So those are the two psychologies. I have the ability to be self reliant, and everyone in this world are my comrades, they are not my

Christine Goforth(16:20.248)
Mm-hmm.

Christine Goforth(16:24.951)
Yeah.

Samantha Bauer(16:31.598)
enemy. And so I can live in harmony in society. And so these objectives can be achieved by facing what Adler calls life tasks. And again, you've already hit on it, right? It's the task of work, the task of friendship, and then the task

Christine Goforth(16:32.098)
They're my people. Mm. Yep. Mm-hmm.

Christine Goforth(16:46.678)
Mm-hmm.

Christine Goforth(16:50.658)
Yep. Friendship and love, right? Mm-hmm.

Samantha Bauer(16:54.924)
of love. Right. Yeah, you got it. So it's really fascinating. It's so simple the way he presents this. And if you think about it, those are the three main areas of how you interact with the world. It's again all interpersonal relationships.

Christine Goforth(17:12.62)
Right.

Christine Goforth(17:16.45)
Yep. It's how you show up. It's how you move through the world. It's how you interact with people, if you will.

Samantha Bauer(17:24.716)
Right, right. And so your life task is really quite simple. Get self-reliant and live in harmony.

Christine Goforth(17:36.492)
Yep. Like you always say, show up with joy.

Samantha Bauer(17:39.993)
Right. Joy and gratitude. That's it. It's really that simple. And the fact that he, in talking about competition and all of that, illuminates again what we've talked about, we are all connected. We are all one. We're all very different, clearly, and we're all on different paths. Some of us are walking really fast, some of us are kind of slow, some of us are way ahead, some of us are way back there, but we're all moving, and that's the key.

Christine Goforth(17:58.999)
Yeah, of course.

Christine Goforth(18:12.106)
So why can't we all be each other's cheerleaders? Right? That's what I hope and wish for.

Samantha Bauer(18:17.154)
Right. Well, and that's a really good question, Christine, and he hits on it a little bit when he talks about people needing to be right.

Christine Goforth(18:30.702)
Yeah.

Samantha Bauer(18:31.882)
I need you to understand what I'm trying to say. I need you to agree with what I have to say. Instead of truly appreciating, people have different thoughts, different life experiences, and all of that. So to your point, why do people do it? Because he doesn't really talk about the ego part, but I'm gonna enter into an argument and I won't give up until I can

Christine Goforth(18:49.324)
Yeah.

Samantha Bauer(19:01.766)
convince you that I'm actually right.

Christine Goforth(19:05.343)
Which is silly and a waste of time.

Samantha Bauer(19:07.628)
Absolutely, absolutely.

Christine Goforth(19:09.302)
I was just telling somebody the other day, I am at a point in my life at the tender age of forty two. If you want to come to my home and tell me that the sky is, I don't know, fuchsia and that unicorns are falling from the sky, and I look outside and it's not true, I'm gonna look at you and say, yeah, you're right, have a great day. Like

Samantha Bauer(19:16.401)
Just a baby.

Christine Goforth(19:39.126)
I don't need to prove anything. I'm done with that. Right? Like I don't need to prove to you that I'm right about anything. I choose my peace.

Samantha Bauer(19:42.232)
Right. Yeah. No.

Samantha Bauer(19:42.232)
Yeah. Right, right. And again, if one of our two objectives, according to Adler, is to live in harmony, then do that. Like you do you, Boo Boo. Right? But also don't jump on my back

Christine Goforth(20:00.087)
Right. Exactly. Yep. Yep. Live and let live.

Samantha Bauer(20:10.154)
and pound me over the head because I might think this way. And so I love that you asked that question because that was literally going through my mind. Like what he's describing is basically today's political discourse where we're just literally beating each other up over stupid shit. And if we could just say, you know what?

Christine Goforth(20:15.147)
Right.

Christine Goforth(20:27.095)
Right. Yeah.

Christine Goforth(20:32.054)
While it's all a distraction from whatever else is happening, right? Where we all are, and again, not to get political, but like ninety-nine percent of us are on the same team. Ninety-nine point nine percent of us are on the same team. And again, we don't have to agree about everything, but at some point, it's

Samantha Bauer(20:35.992)
Bingo. Bingo.

Samantha Bauer(20:47.396)
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.

Christine Goforth(21:01.91)
a baseline of respect and care and kindness.

Samantha Bauer(21:05.196)
And also your happiness, right? I mean

Christine Goforth(21:07.926)
And happiness and peace.

Samantha Bauer(21:09.612)
Peace. Yeah, peace, happiness. We all want it. So let's stop. But again, to your point, Christine, it's a beautiful distraction and becomes the basis for why I can't do X, Y, and Z because of all of this that's going on and these people. So getting really quick to the life lie because we gotta wrap. I can't believe it.

Christine Goforth(21:25.271)
Right.

Christine Goforth(21:30.496)
Right. Yeah.

Christine Goforth(21:34.428)
I know, I can't believe it either. Okay.

Samantha Bauer(21:36.227)
But the life lie, again we've talked about it, but basically the point is shifting responsibility from oneself to another to avoid life's task, right? So I'm not gonna take personal responsibility. It's that person's fault. Therefore, I can't live in harmony with people at work. I can't live in harmony with my friends, I can't find true love, right? There's all kinds of reasons. And again, it's about that life lie. And I love this just really quickly.

Christine Goforth(21:50.505)
Uh-huh.

Christine Goforth(21:57.901)
Right.

Samantha Bauer(22:06.15)
I wanted to share, Adlerian psychology is the psychology of courage. And so the whole point of this is, if you just simply have the courage, and it comes down to, just be courageous and take the risk to do life's task, and that is the task of work, the task of friendship

Christine Goforth(22:12.055)
Mm.

Christine Goforth(22:16.259)
Yeah.

Christine Goforth(22:32.825)
Friendship. Yeah.

Samantha Bauer(22:33.858)
and the task of love, because it all comes down to that.

Christine Goforth(22:39.373)
Well and like, when it comes down to it, what else matters? Right? It's family, your people. What is more important than that?

Samantha Bauer(22:53.396)
Exactly. Yeah. So, I want to close just really quick, Christine, with a quick interchange between the philosopher and the young man. The philosopher says, I will add to that by saying that Adlerian psychology is not a psychology of possession, but a psychology of use. So the young man says, so it's that statement, it's not what one is born with, but what use one makes of that equipment.

Christine Goforth(23:22.975)
Ooh, I love that.

Samantha Bauer(23:23.906)
Right? And it's in your power. You're in the driver's seat. All kinds of bad shit must have happened to you. And we can sit all day here and circle the drain and talk about the crap that happened and this happened, and therefore you can't do anything.

Christine Goforth(23:27.662)
Mm-hmm.

Christine Goforth(23:33.015)
Mm-hmm.

Christine Goforth(23:36.921)
Yeah.

Christine Goforth(23:41.751)
Well, and you can't show me one person who's not had anything bad ever happen to them, right? And so we have to, it always comes back to the stories we tell ourselves and rewiring it. Right. Yes, yeah.

Samantha Bauer(23:47.882)
Exactly. Right.

Samantha Bauer(23:57.101)
Right. Because it benefits us, right? Even the bad stuff, we have a benefit from it because it absolves us of the responsibility.

Christine Goforth(24:03.809)
It's all lessons, it's feedback, it's all of, ugh.

Samantha Bauer(24:09.282)
Yeah, yeah. So obviously we could go on forever, but next time we're gonna talk about the next portion of the book, which is their third night of conversation. But I am so enjoying it and I'm learning too, and I love it.

Christine Goforth(24:12.62)
Yes.

Christine Goforth(24:19.299)
I can't wait.

Christine Goforth(24:24.289)
I love this. I know. I tell my kids, I've never been a podcaster before. I've never been a mom to a fifteen year old before, right? We're all learning together.

Samantha Bauer(24:33.972)
Exactly. Yeah. We're all, as the book says, striving and growing, right? And again, it's that pursuit of superiority or feelings of inferiority that challenge you to just get in the lane. Just get in the lane, folks. So, anyhow, this is Sisters in Law of Attraction. I'm Sam. And we can't wait to welcome you back next time. Bye.

Christine Goforth(24:39.607)
Yep.

Christine Goforth(24:50.147)
Yeah.

Christine Goforth(24:54.537)
And I'm Christine.

Christine Goforth(24:59.757)
Bye.